tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post2857279235561426102..comments2024-03-25T11:49:21.281-07:00Comments on The Splintered Mind: Why Is It So Fun to Condemn People on Facebook?Eric Schwitzgebelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-56768739655309360542014-10-25T19:27:15.897-07:002014-10-25T19:27:15.897-07:00I think it's a question of what task is the sn...I think it's a question of what task is the snark supposed to achieve? What outcomes? It's fun to knock down pins in a bowling alley, but they aren't to roll out and across the road, causing road accidents. There's definate effort ensure the activity is contained. But how far does snark roll?Callan S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15373053356095440571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-66725166074882377552014-10-24T10:14:49.543-07:002014-10-24T10:14:49.543-07:00Snark as an indicator of social insularity -- inte...Snark as an indicator of social insularity -- interesting thought, Scott! It rings true to me. I also agree about heuristics working best in their original ecologies and presenting greater risks as the ecologies change. An important point. There are times it's fine, even good, to be insular and express snarky opinions in a safe space (esp. with your spouse, or with close friends at a party); and I think there might be a positive role for it too on Facebook, sometimes. I share your reservations, but I also want to be moderate about it.Eric Schwitzgebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-55101867416390526412014-10-24T06:45:53.359-07:002014-10-24T06:45:53.359-07:00I worry, though. Previous to that blog war, I had ...I worry, though. Previous to that blog war, I had concluded a blog war with a crypto-fascistic libertarian, one who continually argued for the racial purification of America, relieving women of the right to vote - you get the picture. These guys, as you might imagine, did not play nice either. I remember checking the guy's numbers one day and was dumbfounded. You and I could blog for the rest of our lives, combine our numbers, and we still wouldn't match a single year on this guy's site.<br /><br />Snark is an ingroup activity, and wherever you see it, you have a good indicator of social insularity, I think. I worry that the kind of extremism you see creeping into American politics, for example, is an expression of the way the web allows these kinds of atavistic ingroups to coalesce, work through their messaging, and refine their tools for recruitment.<br /><br />Sounds paranoid, I know. But on my view, big transformations in a problem ecology mean big changes in the functionality of our heuristics. These guys appeal to some pretty basic social intuitions regarding my-side exceptionalism, parochialism, things that likely served our ancestors well... Now, not so much.<br /><br />I shudder to think where the snark train would lead us were we to experience a real economic depression, for instance. Scott Bakkerhttp://rsbakker.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-13293867999787343542014-10-23T15:19:24.054-07:002014-10-23T15:19:24.054-07:00Interesting, Scott! That must have been quite an ...Interesting, Scott! That must have been quite an experience.<br /><br />As a blogger whose words go out irrevocably into public every week, and being a flawed person with my share of biases, bad judgment, and ignorance, I fear someday making a misstep sufficiently embarrassing that it becomes the target of group ridicule, or even being ridiculed for something that wasn't really a misstep but was taken out of context or misinterpreted. I feel some sympathy for the celebrities and politicians who are mocked for their failings, and also for those in the philosophical community who are mocked.<br /><br />Sometimes, group condemnation of this sort is important. Some targets deserve it, and it can help enforce and reinforce community norms, especially when the targets of condemnation are socially powerful and they have behaved in a way that harms people who are socially less powerful. Other targets of group condemnation, I'm sure, do not deserve it. Often, I don't feel that I have a good handle on which is which.<br /><br />I see some parallels here to your picture of self-knowledge, where inferences about a huge target (one's own full mind) are based on a very narrow slice of information. "Low-rez heuristics" as you say. Low-rez heuristics can be pretty awesome, when things go right; of course they can also go disastrously wrong.Eric Schwitzgebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-48604115623969998432014-10-23T06:57:41.969-07:002014-10-23T06:57:41.969-07:00'Little information' is the key. A couple ...'Little information' is the key. A couple of years back, a feminist blogger reviewed my first novel on the basis of the first six pages. She and several others specialized in using troll tactics to 'shame' authors they deemed sexist. It remains, to this day, one of the most surreal and illuminating experiences of my life, watching as blog after blog, message board after message board, took up the mantra of my moral degeneracy. Not one of these people knew anything about me, save that I had written a book that others hated. I debated them, and debated them, all the while knowing (I had just finished reading Haidt's Righteous Mind) that it really didn't matter, that the phenomena I was witnessing, though expressed in epistemic language, had precious little to do with what was actually the case. It really felt mechanical, and so I enjoyed a parade of characters commenting on my sexuality, my intelligence, my appearance - even extending pity to my daughter and my wife! - all expressed in terms of moral outrage. <br /><br />I learned that complete strangers can want, ardently want, you dead for no more reason than a whisper in their ear. <br /><br />These are some pretty powerful, pretty low-rez social heuristics we're talking about here. They become ugly real fast, and they inspire some with real terror. People I had known for years caved and joined the chorus. This is the PTSD mechanism of culture, I now think. Fast. Prone to false positives. And motivationally powerful.<br /><br />The ringleader has since recanted, interestingly enough, apologized for all of it. There's rumours of a suicide attempt made by one of their targets.<br /><br />I certainly don't regret it. In fact, I count it as an artistic triumph, given that my whole point in raising gender issues in my books was to trigger the reader into feeling the same moral outrage as my characters.Scott Bakkerhttp://rsbakker.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-56129252561215814922014-10-22T15:11:46.858-07:002014-10-22T15:11:46.858-07:00Yes, Cati, I'm sure the phenomenon is not uniq...Yes, Cati, I'm sure the phenomenon is not unique to the corners of Facebook I know. I have some concerns about the "piling on", but I also don't want to condemn piling on, since I think it is an important moral activity of affirming and enforcing community norms, often in favor of victims against people in positions of power.Eric Schwitzgebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-78960170631168003082014-10-22T15:08:03.223-07:002014-10-22T15:08:03.223-07:00Neal, that's fun too! Since people can only &...Neal, that's fun too! Since people can only "like" or be silent, you can show yourself and get approval without (explicit) condemnation for your cultivated persona! What's not to "like"? :-)Eric Schwitzgebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-10213247859039443612014-10-22T14:00:32.808-07:002014-10-22T14:00:32.808-07:00Condemning on Facebook is fun for the same reason ...Condemning on Facebook is fun for the same reason that using Facebook (in general) is fun. You get to carefully curate a public persona, and then select a group of people who will tell you (indirectly, of course) how much they like that persona. Vulnerability to shame is almost nonexistent, which is part of why the term 'friend' is so inapt.Neal Tognazzinihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03647675957449931037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-25610566763913567322014-10-22T13:56:01.485-07:002014-10-22T13:56:01.485-07:00I see this too in the literary community. There ha...I see this too in the literary community. There have been a lot of allegations lately of sexual misconduct, and other instances of questionable judgement. I don't know any of these people personally, but in each of these cases, based on what little I've seen, it would seem that there is plenty of room for discussion. I empathize with the victims, because I've been there, too; and yet I find it disheartening the way so many have been so quick to condemn on very little information, and the way that anyone who has tried to be even a little more balanced in their discussion has been skewered. It makes me uneasy, how quickly people can turn on one another, to the point of not wanting to be on *anyone's* team. Facebook is a strange place.Cati Porterhttp://www.catiporter.comnoreply@blogger.com