tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post3838768602889835564..comments2024-03-28T19:14:33.619-07:00Comments on The Splintered Mind: The Gamer's Dilemma (guest post by Henry Shevlin)Eric Schwitzgebelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-21234077500074692902017-09-08T18:14:34.277-07:002017-09-08T18:14:34.277-07:00Henry - That kind of raises the question of why yo...Henry - That kind of raises the question of why you're being the invader? Often 'offence is the best defence' is cited. Perhaps your dilemma is whether that maxim is, in particular instances, actually a rationalization?<br /><br />Why are you playing the invader?Callan S.https://brokenmarrow.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-28727354852414082182017-09-06T06:22:51.496-07:002017-09-06T06:22:51.496-07:00Brandon - very interesting thoughts. I'm incli...Brandon - very interesting thoughts. I'm inclined to agree that what we call 'normal moral psychology' may be highly malleable, although there are likely to be limits (e.g., John Mikhail's idea of universal moral grammar). As for whether we should attempt to shape these norms - fascinating question. We could perhaps be guided by considerations of indirect harm in determining which norms we should cultivate; if it turns out that developing a norm against fictional depictions of violence wouldn't actually make us any less likely to engage in violence, that might tell against doing so.<br /><br />Callan - love your story about the No Russian level! Reminds me of some of my own experiences playing Spec Ops: The Line (a great case for these kinds of discussions). Re: invasion narratives, I think you're right that it's a powerful trope, but I find myself playing the invader as often as the invadee in a lot of strategy games...<br /><br />JCDenton (great name) - yeah, I tend to think humans have a pretty robust capacity for distinguishing fiction and reality (I'm genuinely surprised by the weak/nonexistent relationship between enacting virtual violence and predisposition towards actual violence, for example). I also agree that framing matters a great deal; I suspect that's why we have weaker revulsion reactions to 'arcade' shooters like Doom or even GTA than to more serious depictions of violence (as in the No Russian level).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-56646133489590941602017-09-06T04:42:06.937-07:002017-09-06T04:42:06.937-07:00A few, perhaps unremarkable (and not necessarily c...A few, perhaps unremarkable (and not necessarily connected), observations. First, the degree of revulsion we feel towards violence in video games depends, to a large extent, on framing. There are plenty of games that feature animal cruelty, but the context is comedic (think 'Goat Simulator').<br /><br />More broadly, one could also spin a fairly plausible evolutionary tale - the reason we're often incapable of peeling our eyeballs off horrific events taking place on a screen is because, in the past, attention to such events IRL paid dividends in terms of 'fitness'.<br /><br />There's also an argument to be made that people often fantasise about things they have absolutely no desire to enact - it's like a fanciful exploration (simulation) of the capabilities and limits of one's own mind.<br /><br />And lastly, a more 'pretentious' way of looking at this could be that some people feel compelled to immerse themselves in everything that is vile about the world (albeit, from the comfort of their own keyboards) because they wish to feel at home in it regardless (i.e., they're motivated by a desire to 'love' the world 'as it actually is' without sweeping the unpleasantness under the rug).jcdentonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-79687408686528404522017-09-05T19:58:11.808-07:002017-09-05T19:58:11.808-07:00I think it's an indicator of how we are driven...I think it's an indicator of how we are driven by things that we don't actually know why that drive is there.<br /><br />Consider that violent games are often of the 'invading force' pattern (it's there in the title of space invaders, for example). Historically we are often the victims of other invading humans. It makes sense we would develop an interest in watching such conflict in a way to try and learn from and survive such conflict.<br /><br />While animal cruelty or child cruelty pays off no survival dividends.<br /><br />On the bicyclist, it seems no one did any science on whether a person could brake in time (with or without a front brake). He might be dispassionate but it's because he has no doubt she was in the wrong, just as everyone else seems to have no doubt he was in the wrong.<br /><br />Anecdote: I heard of someone who was really upset at the 'No russian' level (I have not 'played' it) and mowing down civilians. But they got really upset when they were told you can just walk through that level - you don't have to shoot anyone at all. The person who was upset by doing so did so...out of an entirely incorrect assumption they had to. Again, it's funny how we can be unaware of the drives the push us to do things.Callan S.https://brokenmarrow.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-29587023471917985042017-09-05T08:51:39.412-07:002017-09-05T08:51:39.412-07:00I'm torn. On the one hand, your view - that ce...I'm torn. On the one hand, your view - that certain reactions are just indicative of a "normal" moral psychology - sounds right. On the other hand, I can't help but feel that such reactions are heavily influenced by cultural norms. Some cultures might find video game violence more disturbing, say, but video-game bestiality less so. (Of course, there would need to be the appropriate cross-cultural work to verify this-- X-phiers, new project!) That said, if it turns out that culture does set these norms, the idea that there is some one "normal" moral psychology might be false - or, perhaps more charitably, a usual fiction. If so, it raises another interesting set of questions: Should we try, as a society, to modify those norms? Should we, for example, start a campaign to make video game violence as repugnant as video game bestiality? Or to make other "not normal" reactions culturally OK (perhaps they are a safe outlet for individuals who have those feelings, but should not act them out - an argument similar to one I've heard in defense of video gane violence).Brandon Towlnoreply@blogger.com