tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post4197487945194929875..comments2024-03-28T19:14:33.619-07:00Comments on The Splintered Mind: Stanislaw Lem's Proof that the External World ExistsEric Schwitzgebelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-48202156341076807852014-02-04T00:35:33.497-08:002014-02-04T00:35:33.497-08:00You might be interested in Peter Swirski's sh...You might be interested in Peter Swirski's short book "Of Literature and Knowledge: Explorations in Narrative, Thought Experiments, Evolution, and Game Theory". <br /><br />Swirski discusses Lem a bit in that book, but more extensively in other writings - he is apparently the foremost scholar on Lem.MJnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-18226230014775702922014-02-02T08:30:06.866-08:002014-02-02T08:30:06.866-08:00Howard: In Alan's and my version, we assume th...Howard: In Alan's and my version, we assume that any nonconscious part of the mind is "external" in the relevant sense, and we don't assume that the brain exists.Eric Schwitzgebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-11664010685296419052014-02-01T10:13:36.276-08:002014-02-01T10:13:36.276-08:00Is the brain part of the outside to the mind? Woul...Is the brain part of the outside to the mind? Would that play into this thought experiment?howard bermannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-72388864417371708102014-01-24T16:18:41.041-08:002014-01-24T16:18:41.041-08:00Eric, I had thought the story very specific about ...Eric, I had thought the story very specific about the matter of not looking, so as to avoid confirmation bias?<br /><br />If he's left to catching his own math mistakes, that's leaving it at an internal interaction in order to determine the existance of the external, isn't it?Callan S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15373053356095440571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-76793291754774960072014-01-24T09:38:24.758-08:002014-01-24T09:38:24.758-08:00Michel: I prefer not to doubt such things, because...Michel: I prefer not to doubt such things, because then there is no way back! (No way other than Hume's backgammon cure, that is.) But I do think there is a way back if one simply doubts that the external world exists, while granting fairly modest assumptions about your reasoning and memory.Eric Schwitzgebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-71827241071436994182014-01-24T03:52:51.649-08:002014-01-24T03:52:51.649-08:00"... unless he yields to skepticism about his..."... unless he yields to skepticism about his mathematical reasoning"<br /><br />mmm, yes, and why not? why should experience of the external world be totally open to doubt, but experience of the inner world be regarded as inviolate? Do dualism, much?<br /><br />A malevolent entity that is capable of making me doubt that I have really consulted a computer aboard a satellite should be equally capable of making me think that 1 + 1 = 3<br />clasqmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12812785541545674276noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-26577630169264797252014-01-23T12:06:56.012-08:002014-01-23T12:06:56.012-08:00Callan -- not without making mathematical errors t...Callan -- not without making mathematical errors that he should catch unless he yields to skepticism about his mathematical reasoning. At least, that was Alan's and my thinking in setting up our version in the way we did.Eric Schwitzgebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-11085950458433629472014-01-23T10:45:32.958-08:002014-01-23T10:45:32.958-08:00But if he looks at the results, then he could simp...But if he looks at the results, then he could simply be making stuff that fits the results?<br /><br />What of simply running it both ways?Callan S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/15373053356095440571noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-75615636182628234612014-01-22T13:22:52.902-08:002014-01-22T13:22:52.902-08:00Matt B2: Alan and I bracket that concern for the p...Matt B2: Alan and I bracket that concern for the purposes of our paper. Can't do everything at once! I'd be interested to hear if you have a proposed test.Eric Schwitzgebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-72988640323564707082014-01-22T13:22:00.572-08:002014-01-22T13:22:00.572-08:00Brandon: Dennett's argument near the beginning...Brandon: Dennett's argument near the beginning of Consciousness Explained is pretty different, though related. It doesn't involve, for example, a risky specific prediction. And I think it's not entirely clear that the trickster parts of brain couldn't create enough regularity to fool the parts consuming the tricks -- especially in light of Dennett's own remarks later about how we construct regularity in our experiences sometimes from pretty thin input.Eric Schwitzgebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-23625366190073736612014-01-22T13:13:03.819-08:002014-01-22T13:13:03.819-08:00Hi Marco --
There's some pretty philosophical...Hi Marco --<br /><br />There's some pretty philosophical newer stuff too, e.g., Greg Egan, Ted Chiang.<br /><br />That's not a bad one-liner summary of Alan's and my paper. I haven't seen a really good presentation of that argument in the literature. Russell makes a passing remark, and maybe Jonathan Vogel includes it among the things best explained by the real world hypothesis (I'd have to check). There's Decartes's attempt, which involves assuming that certain ideas could only come from a perfect God. Possibly it's an important part of what's going on in Hegel, but I find Hegel difficult to interpret. If you find a good source, fill me in! I share your sense that Alan and I might be missing something obvious.Eric Schwitzgebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-91033271089863801852014-01-22T06:56:06.517-08:002014-01-22T06:56:06.517-08:00Doesn't Dennett make a very similar move in Co...Doesn't Dennett make a very similar move in Consciousness Explained?Brandon N. Towlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-24153233032039320292014-01-21T16:41:51.790-08:002014-01-21T16:41:51.790-08:00How do you know that the synchronized events of yo...How do you know that the synchronized events of your life are not caused by your mind reordering events? Because good is dumb. Matt B2https://www.blogger.com/profile/16580711108988461169noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-36741536261499192472014-01-21T16:09:22.718-08:002014-01-21T16:09:22.718-08:00I glanced at your anti-solipsist paper.
You do a ...I glanced at your anti-solipsist paper.<br /><br />You do a number of experiments. But I would expect the argument against solipsism to be a default "other entities provide you with thoughts you cannot conceive yourself" kind-of argument.<br /><br />This must be there in literature. Why do radical solipsists reject the argument?Marco Devillershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16403899539858486372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-28957972890934003202014-01-21T15:26:34.768-08:002014-01-21T15:26:34.768-08:00The old science fiction was so much better than he...The old science fiction was so much better than hey-you've-got-a-primitive-brain crap they produce these days.Marco Devillershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16403899539858486372noreply@blogger.com