tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post1573596974639076350..comments2024-03-28T19:14:33.619-07:00Comments on The Splintered Mind: Political Conservatives and Political Liberals Have Similar Views about the Goodness of Human NatureEric Schwitzgebelhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11541402189204286449noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-49548902154308691902022-07-17T09:33:48.390-07:002022-07-17T09:33:48.390-07:00My 9 year old grandson says his 7 year old sister ...My 9 year old grandson says his 7 year old sister is very frustratingly corruptibly wrong about doing what he thinks and wants her to be and do, she doesn't seem to care...<br />...of course they are the best and brightest people in the world...<br /><br />Objective observation by some grandparents might be...<br />...'am I so different, have I settled every thought feeling sensation in me, am I in control of anything..., ...Arnoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02580641063222662041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-55516904336896273302022-07-16T20:49:50.370-07:002022-07-16T20:49:50.370-07:00Ha! Raises the interesting possibility that politi...Ha! Raises the interesting possibility that political affiliation is actually just parenting style. All politics is the politics of the nursery.<br />There was one sentence in the preamble there that I disagreed very strongly with. "Those who say human nature is bad have, in contrast, an outward-in model of moral development. On this view, what is universal to humans is self-interest." I react strongly against this for two reasons. First, I don't see that self-interest is universal. The most obvious counterexample is mothers, who regularly (not always, of course) report experiencing complete devotion to their children, and who often act in a way that substantiates that assertion. There is also the relatively high occurrence of suicide; and the ancient moral tradition of heroism. It's reductive to just dismiss all of that and say, no, none of that counts, the only human universal is something out of an economics book. Moreover, self-interest is not even necessary for this part of your argument. You are suggesting that human nature is bad; self-interest is an orthogonal or mediating construct to badness, and demands a whole bunch more argumentation, when you could just leave it at "bad."<br />And the second point is that I disagree that self-interest is bad. It's certainly not the epitome of badness. School shooters seem to have that dubious honour, or terrorists, and they are generally not motivated by self-interest (in any rational sense of the word). And remember, according to Smith, self-interest (when deployed within a law-abiding market setting) is actually an extremely powerful good. I understand that excessive self-interest is a bad, but excessive anything is a bad. Even if self-interest is a universal, there would be a whole bunch more argumentation needed to say why that's bad.<br />(Incidentally, I think I have a better version of human universals: the universal is the desire for human connection and community. In general, I'd say that this is a positive motivation, so I guess this puts me in the Mencius camp. But my theory also runs up against some challenges: hermits, those who hide away in the basement... it's not obvious to me that there are *any* universals. It may be that human character is underspecified by our biology, and that in fact it is highly variable.)chinaphilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14572591745611690731noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-31872715682115611082022-07-12T13:08:36.597-07:002022-07-12T13:08:36.597-07:00I wonder what either group might say on the questi...I wonder what either group might say on the question whether humans can be made good and how, or whether we are both good and badHowardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-58208205851607971782022-07-11T01:17:31.520-07:002022-07-11T01:17:31.520-07:00David Duffy: Thanks for those suggestions! I'...David Duffy: Thanks for those suggestions! I'm traveling right now, but I'll check them out when I'm back in town. They looks very interesting.Eric Schwitzgebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16274774112862434865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-46308971576593356642022-07-11T01:14:44.282-07:002022-07-11T01:14:44.282-07:00Hi all! Thanks for the comments and sorry about m...Hi all! Thanks for the comments and sorry about my slow reply -- I've been traveling.<br /><br />Paul: I confess I am still drawn to the idea that human nature is fundamentally good -- but I do think that conscience often speaks with only a quiet voice.<br /><br />Howie: Yes, I agree that there's more that could be explored here. Maybe Nika or I will do a follow-up. There's probably something to be found, but we don't seem to have angled in on it in quite the right way.<br /><br />Arnold: We have changed as the world around us has changed, as the result of the changes we have wrought upon it.<br /><br />Callan: Interesting conjecture! That would make a good follow-up.<br /><br />Pilot-Guy: Terrific! Thanks for the kind words. I'm glad my work has been an inspiration and motivation!Eric Schwitzgebelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16274774112862434865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-67512371196730763322022-07-10T18:11:36.712-07:002022-07-10T18:11:36.712-07:00Eric - I just wanted to thank you for the decades-...Eric - I just wanted to thank you for the decades-worth of content that has inspired me and motivated me. I have been accepted to an accelerated PhD Philo program and I have chosen to engage with it in no small part due to your ongoing engagement with fascinating and impactful Philo challenges - so thanks from me!Pilot Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15485522498959976328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-9759990636084786282022-07-10T03:01:23.864-07:002022-07-10T03:01:23.864-07:00I'd be tempted to test if it's the reverse...I'd be tempted to test if it's the reverse - for the parenting question use a scenario where in group favoritism is tempting to engage in rather than policing children. Maybe the child runs along a beach and their careless running seems like it could have kicked another child's sandcastle. The child comes up beaming with a beautiful shell to show you.<br /><br />Perhaps given options like 'admire the child's find', conservatives may favour this option more than liberals and liberals may favour the 'Investigate the other child's castle' option more. Perhaps the results come up with no real correlation because conservatives do find human nature to be good, but liberals only say they do. And actually liberal actions reflect more of a predisposition to find human nature to be bad?Callannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-40945247045786556192022-07-06T08:40:20.737-07:002022-07-06T08:40:20.737-07:00...optimism-optimal when related to history...
The......optimism-optimal when related to history...<br />Then I consider the optimism of cave men to the optimism of modern men...<br /><br />Is it, what is in front of us hasn't changed...<br />...it's that we changed, our disposition changed...<br /><br />Why are we disposed to change, we see galaxies live and die...<br />...humanity live and die...<br /><br />Is there a objective nature to change...Arnoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02580641063222662041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-68142583851740561562022-07-06T04:34:56.501-07:002022-07-06T04:34:56.501-07:00https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.2466/pms.1...https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.2466/pms.1970.30.3.867 ;) (see "nature of man, constructive").<br /><br />From collaborators with our group, but only indirectly relevant:<br /><br />https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12110-020-09378-1<br /><br />The Wilson-Patterson Inventory includes items on "inborn conscience", "apartheid" and "white superiority" - I can't see how people responding favourably to the latter two can believe in the goodness of the human nature of at least one subset of the population. David Duffyhttp://users.tpg.com.au/davidd02/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-57809585165285624332022-07-04T14:07:18.148-07:002022-07-04T14:07:18.148-07:00Three forces in-of ourselves, good bad and neutral...Three forces in-of ourselves, good bad and neutral...<br /><br />Conscientious dispositions sometimes appear...<br /><br />The objectivity of movement in nature...Arnoldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02580641063222662041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-19558096926855061082022-07-04T11:46:39.312-07:002022-07-04T11:46:39.312-07:00To be more concrete: perhaps the active variables ...To be more concrete: perhaps the active variables turn out to be openness to experience or conscientiousness or agreeableness or religiosity- these may match and interact with your chosen variablesHowiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12474061778220524205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-50164480501432599852022-07-04T11:33:32.700-07:002022-07-04T11:33:32.700-07:00I wonder if you could pose the question differentl...I wonder if you could pose the question differently as to reflect political candidates liberals and conservatives would support or social policies.<br />That would reflect your theory of dispositions I'd think<br />Perhaps you could survey in a constellation of ways- I'd need more time to think about it<br />Or perhaps both political populations breakdown in complex ways so there would be another variable related to conservatism and liberalism or in addition to them that would pick it up<br />Perhaps you could use dustbowl empiricism to track variables that correlate with liberalism/conservatism and goodness/ badness<br />What's happening could be complex or interesting<br />Howiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12474061778220524205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26951738.post-55496221359370277192022-07-04T07:27:01.322-07:002022-07-04T07:27:01.322-07:00Not sure I can, in good conscience and with a stra...Not sure I can, in good conscience and with a straight face, believe this is true. Anyone can say or write anything, if they believe it will make good press. A recent comment on another blog post summed things up pretty concisely for me. That commenter asserted that the R party is all about power, which includes being about money as well. Contrariwise, the people in the D camp are concerned with doing what is right.<br />I will grant these are broad generalizations. I will, however, contend that records speak volumes. To me, as further stated by another person or two, there is a clear and present danger posed right now. That danger is not a result of people wanting to do the right thing(s).Paul D. Van Pelthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13508874039164282696noreply@blogger.com