Here's an argument that I'm sure will give my philosopher of physics collaborator Jacob Barandes the fits. The conclusion will be that there are vastly many complex structures smaller than a proton, right here in our region of spacetime, populated by vastly many scientific and philosophical observers. Look at that drop of water running from the faucet to the drain. Within it are many tiny people, living many tiny lives.
[Cancer can go hang. I'll keeping fly my weird philosophical speculations on this blog as long as I can. Naturally, I'm hoping to land in the long statistical tail, so that the field won't be rid of me anytime soon.]
Assumption 1: The universe is infinite.
The observable portion of the universe, of course, is not infinite. It extends a only minuscule 46 billion light-years in every direction from us. But there's no reason to think the universe ends exactly at the observational horizon, with us at the center! How inelegant and un-Copernican that would be.
An infinite universe is slightly more elegant than one with an edge. (Why would there be an edge? What would happen there?) And current physical estimates also tend to suggest that at the largest scales, the universe is spatially flat, rather than looping back upon itself in a closed but edgeless geometry. Lots of theoretical physicists think infinitude is a good guess. In any case, I will assume it.
Assumption 2: If the universe is infinite, complexity recurs at large scales.
This assumption is less standard and harder to justify, but not, I think, wholly implausible. Imagine zooming out and out and out so that our galaxy becomes a speck, less than a speck, less less less than less than less of a speck; keep zooming.
It might be that once you've zoomed out far enough, every scale looks smooth and boring -- that things simplify at large scales and zooming further out yields only more featureless simplicity. But it might instead be that complexity reappears at some larger scales, generating structures as intricate as those at our familiar scale. Given infinitude, we can keep zooming out until we find those scales. My second assumption is that however far we zoom out, there will always be larger scales at which complexity reappears.
Such complexity could arise from large-scale interactions among processes governed by the laws we already know. Or it could arise from phenomena we're familiar with but don't yet understand (such as dark matter or dark energy). Or it could arise from unfamiliar processes with measurable effects only at enormous scales. Compare: If we were proton-sized, we'd have difficulty detecting gravity, which accumulates noticeably only at macroscopic scales. There is no guarantee -- nor indeed any particular reason -- to think that all physical laws must operate at scales we can readily detect.
Assumption 3: If the universe is infinite and complexity recurs at large scales, so do life and intelligence.
I see no reason to suppose that the evolutionary processes that produced life and intelligence on Earth could occur only at our scale. Evolution by natural selection requires patterns that reproduce with stable heritable variation and differential reproduction rates depending on that heritable variation. If complexity recurs at large scales, some of these scales will plausibly host complex processes capable of sustaining evolution over long time periods, producing entities approximately as intelligent as we are.
Since we have infinitude to play with, if one otherwise complex level for whatever reason can't host stable evolutionary processes like we see on Earth, forget that level and keep going up.
Now let this evolution run until we have scientific and philosophical observers.
Putting Assumptions 1-3 together suggests that there are infinitely many cosmic observers, capable of philosophy and science, vastly larger than we are, whose worlds contain us as tiny parts -- far tinier relative to them than a proton is relative to us. There's no particular reason to think their sensory organs or scientific equipment could detect events at our scale, which would be to them sub-sub-sub-sub-microscopic.
Assumption 4: Given Assumptions 1-3, it would be an un-Copernican coincidence if we happened to occupy the smallest scale hosting intelligent observers.
According to the Copernican Principle in cosmology we should assume as a default -- pending contrary evidence -- that we don't occupy any particularly special position in the universe, such as its exact center. To dwell at the very lowest, most fundamental level would make us special in an un-Copernican way. Why should we, of all the infinitely many observers at infinitely many scales, be so lucky as to occupy the foundation?
Copernican reasoning thus gives us grounds to think that if there are larger philosophical and scientific observers there are also smaller ones.
Now if we had good reason to rule out life-supporting complexity at smaller scales, we'd know that we are at the lowest level. But our failure to detect complexity at smaller scales doesn't establish its absence. As I mentioned above, there's no particular reason to think all scientific laws operate at scales we can measure or perceive.
Thus, Assumptions 1-3, plus a plausible application of the Copernican Principle and the absence of a reason to think we do dwell at the lowest level, invite the conclusion that within that tiny droplet falling toward the drain are realms of complexity far too small for us to register, populated by vastly many tiny tiny lives and tiny tiny philosophers and scientists, gazing out across their portion of the droplet, wondering what exists beyond the reach of their senses and equipment.
[droplets from a faucet: image source]

18 comments:
Well. This takes theorhetical physics to an nth degree. If there ARE many observers smaller than a proton, what does THAT say of the consciousness of AI? Indeed, what does it say of those who contend AI conscious? But, this is, afterall, an argument. I would not believe crows to be as sentient as they are, but they learn things like dropping nuts on pavement to crack them and get to the succulent flesh inside. There are other examples.
So, subatomic life, let alone subatomic intelligence, is a tough sell. But this post begs us to buy it. Alright, then. Ten years ago, I would not have not bought AI either...
Microscopic Probability vs. Macroscopic Emergence: the juxtaposition between the quantum state of a proton and the classical state of a swarming particle highlights one of the most fascinating divides in physical-philosophy: the transition from fundamental subatomic fields governed by probability amplitudes to autonomous agents driven by local rules and self-propulsion. k-Gluon Plasma under extreme temperatures and densities. Forms emergent macroscopic structures (flocks, schools, swarms) driven by information sharing and active self-propulsion. Bridging Chaos and Agency When we examine both ends of this spectrum, a profound philosophical and physical question arises regarding how order emerges from disorder. At the quantum level, indeterminacy reigns, yet it builds the stable scaffolding of matter. At the active matter level, simple local rules and spontaneous motion generate coordinated, seemingly purposeful collective behavior without any centralized orchestrator. This brings to mind ancient inquiries into spontaneous motion—much like the classical idea of the unpredictable atomic swerve that disrupts rigid determinism to allow for novelty, volition, and creation. Whether through the probabilistic fog of quantum fields or the dynamic steering of a flock, nature constantly finds ways to transcend pure mechanism and generate complex organization. Where do you see the boundary between mechanical computation and true intention emerging as systems scale from subatomic probability to collective agency? Explore further parallels between quantum confinement and active matter swarming. Discuss mathematical models of emergence (e.g., Vicsek model or QCD lattice simulations).Examine the philosophical implications of determinism across physical scales.
the above thanks to Eric, Google and Gemini
Suppose there's an intelligent mind that operates at the scale of a galaxy. Its neuron-equivalents would take hundreds or thousands of years to fire. Almost all thoughts would be thought by small minds, because we think so much more quickly than large minds.
However, I am not sure how this interacts with the assumption of an infinite universe. There would be infinitely many galaxy-sized intelligent entities, and infinitely-many human-sized entities, so I'm not sure we can coherently say that there are more human-sized minds than galaxy-sized minds.
Great.
Do the various Planck sizes have an influence on mlnlmum dimensions conceivable?
This would wreak all kinds of havoc with the observer effect in physics, wouldn't it? Maybe the observer effect disproves this. Or maybe it has a scale-dependency, and there are waveforms that bigger observers could collapse? No idea whether that makes sense, I'm not at all an expert in this realm.
I am uncertain what sort of response was anticipated/expected for this/these
queries. But, I for one like the one submitted by Mr. Philip: it is better, by far, than mine and evokes a more plausible answer, seems to me. Clearly, I am not an expert in the realm either. Physics and math were never my strong suit.
Thinking about consciousness..."The Metaphor of the Unfettered Vector...
Ancient materialists often conceptualized physical reality as a dance of atoms colliding, bouncing, and forming complex aggregations. In that framework, existence required collision—things had to hit each other to matter.
...Neutrinos represent a fascinating philosophical counter-weight: an elemental constituent of the universe that exists in staggering abundance precisely because it refuses to collide. They suggest that a vast portion of reality's movement occurs entirely in the background, untangled from the web of structural creation and decay."
...which presents an interesting juxtaposition, similar or identical with the popularized sci-fi notion of *anti-matter*. Thinking of this relationship from the angle presented, if the neutrino did not itself as it does, instead colliding with constituents it avoids, we should probably not exist nor would anything else.
At most, there would likely be some negative universe, subsuming the one we know: we would never existed, a priori.
Correction:...if the neutrino did not behave as it does...
Not necessarily. The uncertainty principle could itself be an emergent phenomenon that only appears for observers at our scale (very broadly construed).
Point taken, Milan. Yet, the uncertainty principle, as with the laws of hydraulics and thermodynamics, is there because we noticed and named it.
Uncertainty can have more than one meaning here.
So do we gat relegated to a lower rung for bad behavior? Or will creaures in lower levels get promoted? I guess humanity is the Premiere league
But we could just as well assume that we—like any entity—are merely looking at the universe through a specific window and at a particular scale, determined by our own size. It is only for this reason that the quantum world appears blurred to us. And within this ocean of physics, there exists an exception—something organized differently from the rest of matter: what we call life. It is an autocatalytic, operationally encapsulated entity that, at some point, began to sense—a process we also refer to as thinking. As for what kind of relationship other entities might have with the world, we do not know—and we never will. That is all.
IMHO, well said, Wolfgang, well said! (in My Humble Opinion)
That we have purposing, imagining, listening and observing...
"The greatest mystery the universe offers is not life but size. Size encompasses life, and the Tower encompasses size." I was never a big fan of Stephen King, but this conversation between the Gunslinger and the Man in Black is something I still remember.
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